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Another rapid transit "meltdown" (PATH)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B.:

Well, as those old "PAs" were NOT "rolling iPads", they were far less prone to the sort of serious malfunction that caused the PATH blaze yesterday.

One wonders now about the newest "NTTs" running in "Noo Yawk", and whether they, too, will eventually become rolling time bombs", like many " 'lectric buses"............scary for sure......Sad

"NYO"

["WTC"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SubChat even asked the question as to what could have caused that fire. I laid it out fer shurr. Specifically, one asked why the "Pea-Yay," years back, was in such a hurry to retire the PA-1 thru 4 classes in favor of the PA-5 "rolling flame."

Specifically:
Quote:
Who knows if the PA-1 through PA-4, which PATH was in such a hurry to retire in favor of the PA-5, would have suffered from such proclivity to go up in flames like that.


And I responded:
Quote:
You do have to wonder. The PA-5's are among those dubbed "rolling iPads," so electronically sophisticated that it would take a team of NASA engineers to maintain them. You also have to wonder if PATH's 100% reliance on computer-based "PTC" was another factor in this blaze.

One wonders what the founders of the original H&M, from McAdoo on down, would have thought of this development.


I am interested in what the response to my points will be over there.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B.:

I read those same comments myself from SubChat; obviously, others think as we do.

The last new PATH cars (prior to what is running in "the tubes" today) arrived just prior to 1990, when the old "MP-52/"K" cars were retired, and relegated to work service.

PATH was so GUNG HO about making EVERYTHING all "hi tech" that these cars were retired far too soon, and were converted into MOW equipment (they were practically NEW!)

Mr. McAdoo, indeed, was a forward thinker, to be sure.

Look at how advanced the H&M was compared to the early INTERBOROUGH......

1: Emergency battery lighting in all cars

2: Cloth roller curtains

3: Electric marker lights

IMHO, I do not think that Mr. McAdoo would be at all pleased to see the way the "Pee-Yay" is running down what was once a safe, reliable, efficient rapid transit system, his ultimate triumph, all in the misguided guise of "modernization",

Recall, the company's famed slogan:

"The Public Be Pleased"?

Sadly, THAT attitude will NEVER again play ANY role in urban mass transit............... Sad

"NYO"

["33"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Update..........

Still nothing concrete at what caused the underfloor blaze that ignited that "PA-5" car at the Newport Station on Monday; I am STILL going with my original leaning towards some sort of electronic/electric malfunction beneath the car..........

"NYO"

["PA-5"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2025 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
One of the SubChatters is basically saying "aging infrastructure" in 100 words or less. To wit:
Quote:
Of course an air compressor could have been leaking oil which caught fire. Or insulation in an HVDC circuit might have failed and started a grease fire.

As both you and I have been saying, that was never an issue with the PA-1 thru 4 classes.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2025 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
One of the SubChatters is basically saying "aging infrastructure" in 100 words or less. To wit:
Quote:
Of course an air compressor could have been leaking oil which caught fire. Or insulation in an HVDC circuit might have failed and started a grease fire.

As both you and I have been saying, that was never an issue with the PA-1 thru 4 classes.


W.B.:

Exactly!

NEVER heard of any such related issues, regarding the old "PA"-series; of course, they were NOT "rolling iPads".....they were RAPID TRANSIT CARS!!!!!!!!! Wink

"NYO"

["33"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
NEVER heard of any such related issues, regarding the old "PA"-series; of course, they were NOT "rolling iPads".....they were RAPID TRANSIT CARS!!!!!!!!! Wink

Amen to that. Just as subway cars up to the R-68 "Brighton Belles" were "rapid transit cars" through and through.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Investigation of today's PATH fire at Newport station now ongoing (I see my initial thought is pretty valid, as to the probable cause of this blaze)...................

https://rollingout.com/2025/08/04/path-train-to-suddenly-burst-into-flames/

["PORT AUTHORITY TRANS-HUDSON"]

I even brought up the points about "See-Bee-Tee-See" in the comments section of that article. It's currently "awaiting for approval," but I noted, when speaking of the "Mak-Adoo" era block signaling, that it dated to when "Aitch & Em" stood for Hudson & Manhattan and not the clothing chain that is ubiquitous today.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And apparently, the business of computer-based rail service and the various side effects thereof are not unique to "Noo Yawk" or "Joisey." Seems there's a problem in the "Bah-ston" area with a commuter rail "soivice" run by "Em-Bee-Tee-Yay" - and yep, the buzzword is "fire":

https://youtu.be/eaqhWRx-FJw
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B.:

Thanks for this (unwelcome) news.

It is most obvious, that, like any other serious, affliction, CBTC is indeed HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS, and spreads at at most alarming rate, and, sadly, there does not seem to be a cure of any sort on the horizon........... Sad

"NYO"

["827-X"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
But as to your Rolling Out link, here's what Yours Truly had to say:

Quote:
I am willing to hazard a guess that PATH's 100% reliance on "CBTC," plus the PA-5 rolling stock which also has computer control (and have been referred to in some corners as "rolling iPads"), may have played a part in that fire. Some transit-related message boards have pointed out that this was not a problem with the PA-1 through PA-4 class cars that were all retired en masse when the PA-5's arrived, nor when the "block signaling" system which dated back to the early days as the McAdoo-run H&M (when those initials stood for Hudson & Manhattan, rather than the clothing chain around today) was still in effect.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B.:

Well said, my friend, and, of course, I totally cobcour.

PATH= "PRIORITIES ARE TOTALLY HAPLESS" Razz

One cannot help but wonder why the "tubes" would be like today, if it were still operated by the "Aitch & Em", and STILL managed in the "user friendly" mode so long, implemented by the fine, forward-thinking gentlemen known as W.G. McAdoo...........

"NYO"

["JOURNAL SQUARE-33RD STREET"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
SEPTA (a.k.a. "Septic") have their own problems with railroad cars catching fire; I brought up the "See-Bee-Tee-See" issue in the comments section of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGw0Oabysk
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2025 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
W.B.:

I guess we'd better get used to such unfortunate happenings; they will, sadly, becoming more and more commonplace as electric rail fleets become even more and more electronically infused. Sad

Once again, I am MORE than glad I no longer have to ride "the tubes", the subway, or, for that matter, the buses....it's becoming more and more of a crapshoot, these days....... Sad

"NYO"

["PULLMAN-STANDARD"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2025 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, me..........

Recall, a few months back, that the PATH terminal at Hoboken was closed for several weeks, due to major trackwork and station rehab?

Well, guess what?

Just saw a report of Eyewitness News at 4 (ABC 7) that the PATH station at Hoboken will be closed until 5AM Tuesday, due to "emergency track/interlocking work".

Somethin' ain't right, folks....... Razz

"NYO"

["HOB"]
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