BusTalk

[MaBSTOA 15]

How 2500 appeared after rebuilding in 1946. Still working on route 15 Jackson Heights Line.

Once it was returned after the rebuilding in Pontiac, one window shorter and re-designated TD-5401, and before it was put back to work on route 15, It was sent to the BoT for demo purpose in Brooklyn. This led the BoT to order the 400 bus fleet of model TDH-5101.

First photo 2500 is laying over at stop number 1, 82nd Street and Northern Blvd ready for a trip to Manhattan.

Second photo shows 2500 on Queens Blvd, heading towards Jackson Heights. The Flushing Line looms overhead.

[MaBSTOA 15]

Two unusual buses.

#2501 is a GM TDH-5102. The only one ever built. Identical to the BoT's order of model TDH-5101. Ended its days at West Farms Depot along with the ex-Fifth Avenue Coach TDH-5104 models numbered 2502-2551 and ex-Surface Transit TDH-5104 numbers 2590-2599.

#567 is a GM TDH-5502 one of only 101 ever built all going to Chicago Motor Coach and then the CTA.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

AWESOME photos, as always (GORGEOUS bus!)....thanks for posting here!

Wonder what the thought was behind that unusual oval window on the offside?

NOT something you'd expect to find on ANY Old Look!

IMHO, what could be classified as the "classic era' regarding FACCo/FACL, ended with the retirement of the last "Kramdens" (Old Looks)

Though I've mentioned this in the past, given that the 4512 was indeed a popular Old Look model with many cities, neither FACCo nor the "Tee-Yay" ever operated any of the type.

I've read that the 4512s were especially well-regarded for their high level of reliability...........

"NYO"

["FACL"]

[MaBSTOA 15]

By the time the TDH-4512 was introduced, both the TA and Fifth Avenue were committed to the "King Size" GM bus models, the TDH-5106. Only Green Bus Lines had TDH-4512.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MabSTOA 15:

Appreciate this info.

Funny had certain models (series) of buses were more popular with some operators than with others.

PSNJ, for example, purchased a large number of 4509s after the War; these buses were used to retire older buses that had been run into the ground during the War, as well as replacing streetcars on both the HUDSON and ESSEX Divisions...........

"NYO"

["23 CENTRAL"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

As I had just mentioned, it was interesting how how "Pee-Es" was so enamored with the 4509; these buses came in two versions......one with a single doors, and one with a rear exit.

These buses pretty well dominated the HUDSON and ESSEX Divisions, and were still in the "big leagues" when newer "Shermans" arrived during the 1950s.

All of the 4509s had transit-style seating; the single-door versions also had standee windows, like those buses with rear exit doors.

Would have been interesting had FACL opted to purchase a/c-equipped TDM-5106s, as did PSNJ, ORANGE & BLACK, and RED & TAN; interestingly, only 110 of this model were built.

All had standee windows.

DC TRANSIT rostered the look-alike TDH-5105s; these a/c-equipped Old Looks were interesting in that they featured a large rectangular rear window, instead of the two rear windows used on onther "Shermans".

PSNJ also rostered 5108s (these did not have standee windows)

Those rostered by the "Joisey" outfits" Your's Truly remembers well, from his much younger days........

"NYO"

["M512"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Further:

ORANGE & BLACK's fleet was all "suboiban", as we all know; interestingly enough, the "Shermans" I referred to as "semi-suboibans" had no a/c; however, their "semi-suboiban" Fishbowl bretheren had a/c (like the "Shermans" of this type, they had fixed, face-forward, transit-style seating).......................

"NYO"

["RIVER ROAD EXPRESS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Also..............

"SOUTH SUBURBAN SAFEWAY LINES" (out in "Shik-aga") once rostered 28 TDH-5105s, which originally ran in Denver.

At least some of these Old Looks (single door, standee windows) were identical a group once rostered by ORANGE & BLACK; these buses also featured the long, boxy a/c duct running along the roof (interesting, not all of these ex-Denver buses had a/c)

"NYO"

["CHICAGO EXPRESS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting........

Though not at all commonplace here, there were some operators in other parts of the country that operated rear-door, a/c-equipped Old Look transits (these buses had the rear roof-mounted a/c units)

As examples, Nashville, in the 1970s, was operating 10 a/c 4512s; Norfolk also operated a/c 4512s (16 in all)

Just imagine such a/c "Kramdens"/"Shermans" in the NY/NJ area, back in the day...........

"NYO"

["CHESTERFIELD"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Getting back to 1941.........

It's interesting ti ponder how the INTERBOROUGH and the BMT might have handled wartime traffic patterns, equipment usage, etc, had Unification not yet taken place.....

"NYO"

[" DOWNTOWN & BROOKLYN"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

When the a/c "Jetsons" arrived (starting in 1959) DC TRANSIT boasted that it had the LARGEST fleet of air/conditioned transit buses in the world.

Look at how long it took "Noo Yawk" to even BEGIN to TRY to play "catch up!"

The TDH-5105s were the a/c-equipped Old Looks in "Dee-See" that had the roof-mounted a/c unit at the rear of the roof, and the lerge rectangular rear window (here in "Joisey", PSNJ, ORANGE & BLACK, and RED&TAN rostered similar models), which I still recall to this day.................(REAL buses, and NOT "BINOS")...........

"NYO"

["ORANGE & BLACK BUS LINES"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting...........

When a/c-equipped intercity buses began appearing in the late 1930s (indeed, QUITE novel for the day, almost science fiction!) the buses featured underfloor a/c units, as did later generations of intercity coaches.

Most a/c-equipped transit buses, on the other hand, utilized the once-familiar rooftop unit at the rear...........

"NYO"

["AIR CONDITIONED"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]