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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY
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Cyberider
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Tempe, AZ
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 Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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NYO:
Thanks for the info, the photos, and your personal experiences on the SIR. With the 211's being CBTC compatible with all of it's "advantages" doesn't sound like it would be applicable on the SIR at this time anyway. Do the trains really need to run more frequently than they do? I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that traffic wasn't so great on the SIR these days. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyberider wrote: | NYO:
Thanks for the info, the photos, and your personal experiences on the SIR. With the 211's being CBTC compatible with all of it's "advantages" doesn't sound like it would be applicable on the SIR at this time anyway. Do the trains really need to run more frequently than they do? I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that traffic wasn't so great on the SIR these days. |
Cyberider:
Back in the days when the SIRT was owned by the B&O (until 1971) there were more trains operated, at least during rush hours.
Due to a severe car shortage (cars were lost in several fires over the years, as well as being sold off to the NYCTA in 1954) rush hours became chaotic, trying to keep enough cars available for rish hours (only 45 cars were left on the active roster at that time)
During the PM rushes, a number of trains would run express from St. George, only as far as Great Kills, where, after discharging passengers, they would change ends and deadhead to the St. George Ferry terminal, to load another huge crowd debarking from the ferries.
In the early 1970s, several LIRR MU cars were tried out on the SIRT, but they were not suitable for sevice.
Back in the 1960s, there was much talk of surplus BMT "Standards" being sold for SIRT service, but too many obstacles were encountered, over the period of several years.
The last of the 1925 "ME-1s" were retired in 1973 (real progress....the 1925 cars seated about 60 passengers; the new "R-211s" only seat about 30!) 
"NYO"
["RIDE THE RAPID" |
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Cyberider
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Tempe, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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NYO: Thanks for the history and additional information. I've seen photos of the LIRR cars but didn't know (or forgot) that they didn't work out. Interesting system history and somewhat remarkable that part of it still exists.
If they finish the tunnel before the 211's are worn out, maybe they can make use of their CBTC capabilities. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Cyberider:
Had the tunnel under the Narrows been built, Staten Island commuters would have enjoyed a convenient, one-seat ride from Staten Island into Manhattan, via the BMT's 4th Avenue line in Brooklyn.
Like the BMT's "Standards", the interiors of the "ME-1s" were of a unique combination of rapid transit and suburban commuter.
However, the BMT's cars were furnished with "fixed" seats, while some of the seats in the "ME-1s" were of the "flip-over" type.
In fact, the earliest "Standards" had window shades and milk glass shades covering the light bulbs!
Nothing remains of the SIRT's South Beach line (closed 1953; the last overpasses were long ago taken down, and much of the ROW is now built over with houses.
The old line to Arlington still has a miniscule freight operation, connecting via bridge to New Jersey.........
"NYO"
["SIRT"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Cyberider:
When the South Beach and Arlington lines were still in use by the SIRT (prior to 1954), one-car trains were used for off-peak runs; two-car trains were more than adequate for rush-hour runs.
On the Tottenville line (back in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s) two-car trains ran during the off-peak hours; trains with multiple cars only operated during the rush hours.............
"NYO"
["TOTTENVILLE LOCAL"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 58
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4253
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Back in the days when the SIRT was owned by the B&O (until 1971) there were more trains operated, at least during rush hours.
Due to a severe car shortage (cars were lost in several fires over the years, as well as being sold off to the NYCTA in 1954) rush hours became chaotic, trying to keep enough cars available for rish hours (only 45 cars were left on the active roster at that time)
During the PM rushes, a number of trains would run express from St. George, only as far as Great Kills, where, after discharging passengers, they would change ends and deadhead to the St. George Ferry terminal, to load another huge crowd debarking from the ferries.
In the early 1970s, several LIRR MU cars were tried out on the SIRT, but they were not suitable for sevice.
Back in the 1960s, there was much talk of surplus BMT "Standards" being sold for SIRT service, but too many obstacles were encountered, over the period of several years.
The last of the 1925 "ME-1s" were retired in 1973 (real progress....the 1925 cars seated about 60 passengers; the new "R-211s" only seat about 30!)
"NYO"
["RIDE THE RAPID" |
And to think the "Arnines," "Artens," R-11/"Toity-Four's" and R-16's had the type of seating that people began taking for granted with the "Fordy-Fours."
And the new R-211's, compared with what cars ran over "Es-Eye-Are-Tee" over the decades, are shorties: 60' 6". Again, pitcher's mound to batter's box (and didn't the Yankees have a farm team in the "Isle of Staten"?). Small wonder the seating capacity dropped. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:17 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Recall, also, like the "Steels", the "ME-1s" also had fold-down seats, used during the rush hours, when the station stops were all along one side.
Something is telling Your's Truly that the "Es-Eye-Are" commuters are NOT going to be enamored with the new seating....and, who can blame them?
Ahhh, progress.............
"NYO"
["GREAT KILLS EXPRESS"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Also.........
Note the miniscule end destination signs on the "R-211s".........common sense would have dictated that a large sign be installed where the "eye patch", is, at car ends, alongside the storm door........... 
Interestingly, the "ME-1s" never had sign boxes, UNTIL they went to the "Tee-Yay" and had metal plate sign boxes installed, rescued from scrapped "El" cars...........
"NYO"
["CULVER L'C'L"] |
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Cyberider
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Tempe, AZ
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Cyberider:
Thanks for the link! 
When the original "ME-1s" entered service in 1925, the reason they were purchased in the first place was that the trans-Narrows tunnel was thought to be only a few years away, linking the SIRT with the BMT.
'
It was for just this reason when the "ME-1s" were indeed patterned after subway rolling stock, right down to the metal straps for standing passengers.
It was interesting that the new cars had vestibules like the IRT cars; the "Standards" (or "Steels") did not, as you know, have vestibules......
"NYO"
["BMT"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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"Backs To The Wall" seating on the "Bee-Em-Tee".........
Earliest use of such seating on the "Bee-Em-Tee" (AFAIK) would have been the "C"-unit El cars of the mid-1920s.
The "Steels", the "Triplex", and the "Multis" all utilized the more comfortable seating arrangement, last used on the "R-68s" (aka "Brighton Belles").......
"NYO"
["BMT LINES"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting..........
Recall the original "INTERBOROUGH" cars featured seating that would have been more appropriate to the "Bee-Are-Tee".
We've discussed how the "El-Eye-Double-Are's" original MU's, the MP-41s, were virtual clones of the original Gibbs cars, with the exception of steps, vestibule traps, and large headlights; even the seating arrangements were the same (the LIRR cars also had leather straps for standees)..........
"NYO"
["INTERBOROUGH RAPID TRANSIT"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29769
Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 58
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4253
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Interesting..........
Recall the original "INTERBOROUGH" cars featured seating that would have been more appropriate to the "Bee-Are-Tee".
We've discussed how the "El-Eye-Double-Are's" original MU's, the MP-41s, were virtual clones of the original Gibbs cars, with the exception of steps, vestibule traps, and large headlights; even the seating arrangements were the same (the LIRR cars also had leather straps for standees)..........
"NYO"
["INTERBOROUGH RAPID TRANSIT"] |
And George Gibbs had a hand in designing both. |
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