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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: |
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(SEE EARLIER POST) Further-------if Your's Truly is correct-the last new buses purchased by FACCo prior to the 1954 "hookup" with "NYO" would be the 5104s and the "oddball" WHITE 1150s------(quite certain that Ralph would be greatly pleased by the double-width doors on the 5104s----------(!!)  "NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 58
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4249
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | | WB: Another EXCELLENT post----loaded with great historical "tidbits"-----thanks for sharing! If indeed "NYO" was a thinly-disguised "alter ego" for the operation where Ralph "bribes a dus"-this operation was indeed a"big city"operation-by early 1951 "NYO" rostered nearly a thousand buses (newest were the 360 TDH-4509s) running out of four garages (19 routes)-----the oldest buses-the YELLOW 718s and rebuilt 740s-were assigned (as you know) to the downtown crosstown routes-while the newer 4509s held down the "posh" runs (so-it appears-that the 4509s were the last buses purchased by "NYO" while still an 'independent")--------"NYO" |
Indeed, #2969 - in which the "Core Four" posed - was assigned out of the 100th Street depot, and for years held down the #18 86th Street route. Who knows if that was the "crosstown route" referred to at the end of "Brother Ralph" when his layoff was over? |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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WB: I always thought that the "crosstown route" alluded to in "Brother Ralph" was one that was at least-in part-based on a non-fictitious route (for Your's Truly-"crosstown"always recalls the busy crosstown SURFACE/"stoa" route along 42nd We both know that both FACL and SURFACE rostered "Jetson" Fishbowls----had "NYO" stayed an "indy"-it would be interesting to witness the purchase of Fishbowls----or perhaps----"Dangerfields"------  "NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Too--------in certain episodes of "The Original 39" riding the buses and the subways pop up in the dialogue; recall in "Alice And The Blonde" -the "Core Four" take the bus (at night) to pay a call on a certain Bert and Rita; how casual it was-back then-riding public transit at all hours (in BROOKLYN no less!) with no fear of ending up a statistic---Your's Truly-(now nearing 70!) indeed can recall such an era--------too-look at how Ralph and Norton stayed out until the wee hours after "business" at the Raccoon Lodge----with no fear of dire consequences on the way to the lodge or returning----------aaaahhhh-t'was another "Noo Yawk"------and indeed----- another world-for sure--------"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Recall the air-conditioned "Jetson" Fishbowls rostered by FACL: had FACL stayed independent-would they continue to purchase only a/c-equipped buses (either Fishbowls or "Dangerfields") or purchase non a/c units and ac buses back and forth until only a/c buses were purchased? (Personally-with FACL being so "upscale" and "tony"-I would personally think that they would only continue to purchase a/c-equipped buses in future orders) "NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 58
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4249
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | | Recall the air-conditioned "Jetson" Fishbowls rostered by FACL: had FACL stayed independent-would they continue to purchase only a/c-equipped buses (either Fishbowls or "Dangerfields") or purchase non a/c units and ac buses back and forth until only a/c buses were purchased? (Personally-with FACL being so "upscale" and "tony"-I would personally think that they would only continue to purchase a/c-equipped buses in future orders) "NYO" |
That would no doubt have been their plan and their intention, but by the time they purchased their last "Jetson" Fishbowls as an operator, they were in deep financial tsuris because of the wolf knocking at the door (a certain "Mr. Weinboig") in combination with declining bus ridership which, to the company's dying day, they blamed on the one-way avenue conversions that had been mapped out steadily since 1948, and something tells me it was for the same reasons as why "Bah-ston's" 01400 series Cambridge (Red Line) subway cars made by Pullman-Standard and put into service in 1963 were made as they were (i.e. no A/C) - to cut costs. When the 100-bus order (3111-3160 for FACL, 3161-3210 for Surface Transit) they placed in late 1960 arrived in "Noo Yawk," articles trumpeting their debut noted that each bus cost FACL a pretty $28,000. Something tells me the ten A/C units they ordered earlier that year cost a little bit more. While John E. McCarthy was in many ways very progressive in terms of how he envisioned bus travel, those who followed him after his death in June 1960 not only weren't so much, but also (as looking at their ages - late 60's and early 70's) basically living fossils, treading water (McCarthy's successor as FACL president, John A. Moreland, had an association with FACCo dating way back to 1910 when he started as an apprentice mechanic, and was a veteran who'd fought in the 1916 Mexican uprising - I don't think he would have been Gotham Bus exec Mr. Monahan's equivalent, though, or even Mr. Peck or Mr. Tebbetts). No doubt when the first "regular" A/C buses for the "Tee-Yay" and " 'stoa" were drawn up in late '66 and arrived in early 1967, there was one reason they had that added on - a certain "Mr. Linds-ley," who pretty much dragged the "Tee-Yay" kicking and screaming into the "modern age" (just as he had when he pressed them to put A/C on the last ten of the R-38 "Brightliner wannabes" as they were being built). |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
GREAT post; thanks for taking the time to share this great historical info!
IMHO, I always thought it would have been the "Brightliners" that would have introduced a/c to the subways, especially seeing how sleek and up-to-date they were.
Here in, "Joisey", a/c was a looooong time coming to the Hudson County IBOA lines.
By the late 60s, even with the oldest "square window" Old Looks, "Pattons", and WHITES gone, a/c was still virtually unheard of, except for one or two "oddball" Fishbowls.
A/C-equipped IBOA buses did not become commonplace until the later 1970s, when the "En-Jay-Oh-Tee's massive influx of "Dangerfioelds" arrived............
"NYO"
["LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 58
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4249
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
GREAT post; thanks for taking the time to share this great historical info!
IMHO, I always thought it would have been the "Brightliners" that would have introduced a/c to the subways, especially seeing how sleek and up-to-date they were.
Here in, "Joisey", a/c was a looooong time coming to the Hudson County IBOA lines.
By the late 60s, even with the oldest "square window" Old Looks, "Pattons", and WHITES gone, a/c was still virtually unheard of, except for one or two "oddball" Fishbowls.
A/C-equipped IBOA buses did not become commonplace until the later 1970s, when the "En-Jay-Oh-Tee's massive influx of "Dangerfioelds" arrived............
"NYO"
["LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE"] |
Though Inter-City Lines' "suboibans" had A/C. I remember, as I've noted before, the different "grillage" used on the add-on atop the back of the bus on the "Jetsons" vs. the "Bullets." And this was before Maplewood Equipment took over their routes. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 29761
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
ORANGE & BLACK's "suboiban" fleet (Fishbowls and some "Shermans") also had a/c.
Some of their newer a/c-equipped "Shermans" had the narrow split rear window with the more modern a/c unit above; the older models had the boxy unit over the twin rear windows, with a long duct running along the roof.
Then they (O&B) also had what I called "semi-suboiban" Fishbowls and "Shermans; these "Shermans" had no a/c, no rear exit doors, and transit-style seating.
The Fishbowls, however, DID have a/c; the "Shermans" had also standee windows (again, no rear doors)
Yup, I recall these relics QUITE well, back in my much younger says.......
"NYO"
["RIVER ROAD EXPRESS"] |
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