BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

[Mr. Linsky]

A question for you Northern Queens transit historians;

Aside from Triboro Coach Corporation and Queens/Nassau Transit Lines, did North Shore Bus Company or Steinway Omnibus Corporation have use of the Victor Moore Arcade terminal in Jackson Heights?

Shown below is a typical mid fifties day at the terminal dominated by three colorful post war Triboro GM Old Look Coaches.

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' of eBay.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[traildriver]

Mr. Linsky,
Your mention of the Rockaway/Jamaica Turnpike with its rather hefty for- its-time 25 cent toll, along with the video I saw linked to the other one on the early streetcar lines telling the story of Vanderbilt's Long Island Motor Parkway, surprised me....I didn't realize there were so many toll roads on the Island back then.
The only one I recall was the 10 cent toll on the Southern State Parkway, that was removed way back. The only sign of the plaza is the wide area between the State Police station and the seasonal Long Island tourist info booth...

I suppose any road with 'Turnpike' in its name probably was a toll road at one time.......

[traildriver]

Does anyone know about the history of 'Queens Nassau Transit Lines'?
Where did that 'Nassau' reference come from? Until they started the express route from Lakeville Road much later on, I can't see them coming less than five miles from Nassau County. Did they ever operate to there before?
And why did they operate the Q-67 line, which did not connect with any of their other routes? I believe it properly should have been operated by their related company--Steinway Transit, which did connect in LIC?

[andy47]

Triboro Coach was the only bus operator that used the Victor Moore Terminal in Jackson Heights. Queens-Nassau (or later, just Queens) Transit) never used that terminal as its routes did not serve that immediate area - its closest was along Northern Blvd., about a mile away, on the Q66 route. The only other old private operator that served the 74th St-Roosevelt Avenue area was Fifth Avenue Coach with its #15 route, now the Q32.

I too have wondered why the "orange bus" was originally Queens-Nassau Transit. It never did serve routes in Nassau County, so maybe it had visions of doing so. By 1957 its name was shortened, appropriately, to just Queens Transit. The Q67 route was part of its predecessor company, New York and Queens County Railway, which is why Queens Transit continued to operate it even though its corporate affiliate, Steinway Transit, had other routes in the same part of Queens. More a franchise issue that anything else.

[traildriver]

[Mr. Linsky]

andy47,

I would have agreed with you until I saw the following very early forties image of the Victor Moore terminal with one Triboro White (right side) and two Queens/Nassau ACF's (center and left side).

No credit available for photo.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

traildriver,

Now you're in my territory!

The New York and Queens Transit Corporation had nothing whatever to do with the Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation (M&Q) that Green Bus Lines bought in 1943 as the Q-60 route.

From 1913 to 1937, M&Q ran traction cars from the 2nd. Avenue (Manhattan) terminal at the foot of the 59th. Street (Queensboro) Bridge to South Jamaica via Queens Boulevard.

In 1937 M&Q replaced the street cars with 30 Mack buses which where also inherited by Green Lines (see factory shot attached).

Interestingly, M&Q was owned between 1937 and 1943 by both a well known and politically connected Queens attorney and an executive of the Greyhound Corporation.

Photo owned by this writer.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[andy47]

Those ACFs in the VM Terminal are Triboro's. It also had ACFs in its fleet before WW II. As I indicated earlier no Queens-Nassau or Steinway or North Shore Bus route ever served this part of Jackson Heights. Aside from Triboro only Fifth Ave. Coach passed this location. Queens-Nassau's closest route was the Q66 Northern Blvd. line. Steinway's closest route was the Q104 Broadway on 48th Street.

[traildriver]

[quote="Mr. Linsky"]traildriver,

Now you're in my territory!

The New York and Queens Transit Corporation had nothing whatever to do with the Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation (M&Q) that Green Bus Lines bought in 1943 as the Q-60 route.

From 1913 to 1937, M&Q ran traction cars from the 2nd. Avenue (Manhattan) terminal at the foot of the 59th. Street (Queensboro) Bridge to South Jamaica via Queens Boulevard.

In 1937 M&Q replaced the street cars with 30 Mack buses which where also inherited by Green Lines (see factory shot attached).

Interestingly, M&Q was owned between 1937 and 1943 by both a well known and politically connected Queens attorney and an executive of the Greyhound Corporation.

Photo owned by this writer.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[/q

Okay then...
So where did the "New York and Queens County Railway" predecessor to Queens Nassau Transit Lines bus operate its cars?

And Mr. 'L', you've got my curiousity....who was that Greyhound exec?

[Mr. Linsky]

andy47,

I can't buy it!

The two ACF's are clearly dressed in Queens/Nassau livery! (you can't mistake that!).

I direct your attention to Q/N # 81 below - no Triboro ACF had that distinct front end paint design.

I can't explain it - but that's the way it was!

Photo courtesy of Motor Bus Society.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[andy47]

Well then, it will simply remain a mystery why there are Queens-Nassau ACFs at the Victor Moore Terminal. As far back as I can remember, the early 1950s, only Triboro and 5th Ave. Coach operated there (5th Ave. of course did not use the terminal but stopped just outside).

But thanks for your insight - who knows the real story? Queens was certainly a "lab" for urban transit bus routes in 1930s and 1940s as the current network was being created.

[N4 Jamaica]

It's probably about seventy years since that photo of the Victor Moore Arcade was taken, the photo posted Feb. 2, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. Within five years, I probably saw the terminal when using a paper transfer to change from the el to the subway there (transfers there first issued July, 1948).
---
I beg the youngsters to take photos now and save them. In that case, someone in 2083 will be able to see them! Think about putting the date and other details within the frame, so no matter what technology is used to transfer the photo to a new medium, the identification will also get moved. I note how the words Victor Moore Arcade tell us the photo location.
---
I lack confidence in the durability of what we save digitally. Who knows? Maybe the computers of the new era will be unable to read images stored in 2013. Yet, black and white photos on paper have survived.
---
Many thanks to Mr. Linsky for saving the photo and posting it.
Joe McMahon

[Mr. Linsky]

For those of you who have asked about the history of Queens Transit Lines a/k/a Queens/Nassau Transit Lines and Steinway Omnibus Corporation, here's your big chance to latch on to a copy of the Motor Bus Society's April-June 2007 issue of Motor Coach Age entitled 'Queens Surface' devoted entirely to those entities.

The book is up for auction through '4509bus' on eBay as item # 350708670815.

Highly recommended reading with many great photos.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

traildriver wrote;


Okay then...
So where did the "New York and Queens County Railway" predecessor to Queens Nassau Transit Lines bus operate its cars?

And Mr. 'L', you've got my curiousity....who was that Greyhound exec?


The name of the M&Q partner from Greyhound was Ralph Bogan and a little of his history follows;

Carl Wickman and his partners were not the only motor coach entrepreneurs in Hibbing, Minnesota. By 1915 a motorcycle racer named Ralph Bogan began transporting miners from Hibbing to Alice for 50 cents. Hibbing Transport responded by reducing its fares to 40 cents. Thus began the first known price war among bus companies. Wickman eventually offered Bogan a share in Hibbing Transport, establishing a pattern of merging with competitors that would eventually result in the formation of Greyhound the largest bus company in the world.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'