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"Keepin' cool": Bygone transit air-conditioning
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stunning portrait of two restored Old Looks; No. 3100 being one of them.

From this classic scene, it is quite obvious that GM had MORE than enough experience at building high-quality coaches.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?733
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear views of a/c'd GM and FLX New Looks.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3016

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3037

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3046

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3047

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3049

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2305
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dedicate these two classic "GREEN BUS" shots to our good friend, Mr. "L"....... Very Happy

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?482

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?485
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some personal musings on FACC's No. 3100......

Originally, I had thought that the No. 3100 owned by the NYC TRANSIT MUSEUM was a "mock up" of the original, until learning that the bus IS indeed the ORIGINAL No. 3100.

Having established that this bus IS original, I must admit I am still a bit puzzled, regarding the roof-mounted a/c unit at the rear.

Vintage photos of this bus (showing the rear) depicting the a/c unit as having distinct "humps" (pods?) housing the fans.

These were quite pronounced.

However, on the restored coach, the a/c unit is quite boxy, with no trace of the original humps.

As I now know that this a/c unit was original (stored for many years after the bus was retired from revenue service), was this "modification" done during the coach's MABSTOA days, or, was this a "rebuild", untertaken during the Museum's restoration of the bus in later years?

This one has me a bit puzzled.......

NYO
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO,

The Air Conditioner condenser and fan cabinet now carried atop FACCO's # 3100 is the original and is also 'one of a kind'.

GM Engineering produced two prototype Air Conditioned buses with the first being a 1952 TDH 5103 that originally tested Air Suspension and then in 1956 with an experimental Air Conditioner added became a 5105 and was tested by FACCO as # 3200 before it was purchased by New Orleans Public Service (pictured below in New York with what became D.C. Transits livery).

The second A/C demonstrator (a 5106) was to become FACCO # 3100 and carried a slightly different but basically similar roof unit (you can clearly see # 3200's roof unit top left of page 21 of the July-August 1992 Motor Coach Age.

To my knowledge the 3100 and 3200 box styles were never used again and the first production of Old Look Air Conditioning that went to D.C. Transit carried a more 'New Look' style box combined with the same 'panoramic' rear window used on suburbans as seen on a PSCT 5108 (upper right of the same MCA page.

I think your confusion can be explained easily - the 3200 did have two slight humps protruding from the top of the box for the fans.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L"

Once again, sir, I thank you for your time and effort......I greatly appreciate you taking thetime to respond in such great detail!

That color photo of No. 3200 puts even the MONA LISA to shame!<G>

One of the old photos of No. 3100 I was referring to early is on page #26 of "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", by Guy E. Martin.

This view (caption states that this was probably a builder's shot) shows the rear of the coach with the two fans in the a/c unit bulging out over each of the rear windows.

Fan blades and wire-mesh coverings are also clearly discernable in this picture.

I also thank you for pointing out that No. 3100 had no "Thermo-Matic" vent above the windshields; for some reason, I had never noticed this before, until you brought it to my attention!

Thank you again........

NYO
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear view of ex-FACC No. 3100, at a NYC TRANSIT MUSEUM bus gathering.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3020
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO,

I stand corrected - it does look as though the museum 3100 has something more home made.

In fact, it looks ridiculous when compared with Martin's page 26 image.

Good spotting on your part.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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HwyHaulier




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Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR 'L' - NYO -

Ref the #3100. I thought we had some other notes up here somewhere. Comments the more recent restore of the coach
included a "slap together" faux A/C unit housing, and after the fact, inventive piece of work...

.....................Vern.......................
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
NYO,

I stand corrected - it does look as though the museum 3100 has something more home made.

In fact, it looks ridiculous when compared with Martin's page 26 image.

Good spotting on your part.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'


Mr. "L".......

Despite my regarding you as being a highly-respected expert on such historical bus topics, there was just SOMETHING about that a/c housing that just did not sit quite right with me.

At first, I thought it might have been the result of some work by MABSTOA later in the game, but then dismissed it quickly, as even that scenario seemed unlikely.

So, then, IF this is NOT the original a/c housing for No.3100, WHERE, then, is the original? (IMHO, more than likely junked long ago)

Even considering the fact that the a/c unit was removed when the bus was retired, and went to the Transit Police, this STILL does not add up.

WHY remove it in the FIRST place?

Even IF the unit became cranky in later years, it would have been a simple matter simply to leave the roof unit where it was, instead of going through the expense (and effort) of removing it and its related hardware.

Ahhh, sweet mystery of life, indeed!

NYO


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
MR 'L' - NYO -

Ref the #3100. I thought we had some other notes up here somewhere. Comments the more recent restore of the coach
included a "slap together" faux A/C unit housing, and after the fact, inventive piece of work...

.....................Vern.......................


Vern......

Your scenario certainly seems a most valid one, and indeed, one that would make a good deal of sense, given what we've since seen here......

NYO
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting page on the vintage buses of the NYC TRANSIT MUSEUM; there are a few photos of No. 3100, but none showing the "mystery" a/c unit.....

http://forgotten-ny.com/2011/05/bus-boy-a-day-at-the-mta-bus-fair/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just came across this photo of No. 3100 at the Colesium Garage, in 1970.

Note that, by this late date, the a/c unit has been removed.

When and why this was removed, I have no idea, except, perhaps, the a/c unit became too expensive (or labor intensive) to economically maintain.

Judging by the overall scruffy condition of the coach, it looks as though it might have already been retired, or, was getting close to being removed from revenue service......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1066
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HwyHaulier




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Just came across this photo of No. 3100 at the Colesium Garage, in 1970....
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1066

NYO -

BAH! It just needed a trip thru the wash line!

Recall, at time of build, it was quite early on with use of A/C. New York may not have been satisfied with in service performance, with this first Coach.

The DCTS order of TDH-5105 types had their own operating quirks. On hot days, on upgrades, equipment exhibited quite sluggish performance...

......................Vern......................
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Just came across this photo of No. 3100 at the Colesium Garage, in 1970....
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1066

NYO -

BAH! It just needed a trip thru the wash line!

Recall, at time of build, it was quite early on with use of A/C. New York may not have been satisfied with in service performance, with this first Coach.

The DCTS order of TDH-5105 types had their own operating quirks. On hot days, on upgrades, equipment exhibited quite sluggish performance...

......................Vern......................


Vern.....

True......

In my day, I vividly remember ratty-looking old GM's....bent, battered, and work-weary.....but STILL doing the job!

BUT.......

Note some sort of "paperwork" affixed to one windshield wiper, and the sloppily-taped placard in the opposite windshield.

Though taped placards in windshields displaying a route certainly was not at all unusual for "revenue" coaches at times, this one looks particularly sloppy.

Too, note that the roller curtain appears to be out of order, and all ad placards have been removed......

NYO

"Sluggish" coaches on grades.....the ex-PSNJ Z-300 series New Looks were noted for their sluggishness on grades, particularly on outbound #21 runs, struggling with the steep hill up from Weehawken.

I remember this clearly, during my long-ago commuting days.....
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