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'Bus Nostalgia'
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver,

GM's single door transit configuration in Old or New Look models was not that uncommon especially when the coaches were meant for interurban service such as those with Greyhound's Pacific Division in the San Francisco Bay Area.

When the need for rapid on/off operation such as was the case at the 64/65 New York World's Fair, Greyhound did opt for double doors on about 50 of its 100 New Look shuttle buses on the property.

While a single door configuration does add two more seats to capacity, I have always felt that the loss of one door was the loss of another way out in the event of emergency.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's true, but on the New Looks, most of the windows can be pushed out for emergency egress.

I wonder why PGL didn't order suburban's for their local services?
You would think that the underfloor compartments and overhead racks would come in handy for them, as the buses could be used in mainline service in a pinch to supplement the parlor buses during holiday periods.

Just when did GM introduce the Suburban type bus?
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver,

Officially, the first genuine GM Old Look era 'purpose built' Suburban with drop sash windows, high back seats on platforms and parcel racks was the TDM 4509 which was introduced along with the transit 4509's in April of 1949 (see photo of New Jersey Public Service # F 548 - a 1952 TDM 4509).

In retrospect, this model should have been designated as another series because it has only been a source of confusion all these years but, because it was an experiment at the time, GM left it among the 4509's.

The air suspension version which appeared in 1953 was given its own identification as a TDM 4515.

In 1940, GM did build two 'special order' TD 4503's (for DeCamp Bus Line of New Jersey) and another handful of TD 4505's in 1941 with three going to Pacific Greyhound Lines.

These buses had the same features as the TDM 4509.

Photo courtesy of the Jim Husing Collection.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info, Mr. 'L'. I can't tell from the photo....did the Old Look Suburbans have underfloor storage like the New Look Suburbans had? (It doesn't appear so, at least on the 'street side'......

Also, was there ever a version based on the 55 seaters that CTA had?
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frankie



Age: 77
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 745
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Thanks for that info, Mr. 'L'. I can't tell from the photo....did the Old Look Suburbans have underfloor storage like the New Look Suburbans had? (It doesn't appear so, at least on the 'street side'......

Also, was there ever a version based on the 55 seaters that CTA had?


I don't think the TDM-4509's had underfloor storage based on photos of these, however the TDM-4515 had 3 small door compartments on both sides - probably an optional feature when ordering. Compared to the new looks, storage space was pretty limited.

As for CTA, all 55 seaters were transit buses. There were no other versions.

Frankie

Photos courtesy of Luke & Metler for educational purposes only.



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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info, Frankie.
Those suburban buses, especially the New Look, V-8 powered 40 footers always fascinated me. I often wondered why GM took so many years from the time the 40 foot tranit buses came out (1951?), until they finally offered 40 foot parlor coaches to the public in 1968 (the PD 4903). They had to have been legal since at least 1954 when the Scenicruisers went into nationwide use....
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timecruncher



Age: 73
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Ohio Bus Line 4515 was a 2-speed automatic, by the way. The photo appears to be somewhere in downtown Cincinnati heading up to Hamilton via Route 4 and Glendale.

Ohio Bus Line didn't purchase manual transmission suburbans in the fifties and sixties, and got the first new look SDH4501 units built. One of them is in the Cincinnati Transit Historical Association fleet and is [usually] operable.

timecruncher
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen sometime in late 1940 leaving the Sip Avenue Terminal in Jersey City is fleet # 8906 - a 1940 Yellow Coach Model TDE (Transit Diesel Electric) 4001 and one of thirty likenesses number between 8900 and 8929 operating for Public Service Coordinated Transport (PSCT) of Newark, New Jersey.

The 40 passenger 33 foot long TDE 4001, built exclusively for and to the specifications of PSCT, was among the first of Yellow's new 'Monocoque' design transit buses in which the fuselage itself became the load carrying member thus eliminating the chassis and its added weight.

Yellow had advertised this latest offering as its 'Streamlined Transit' line but bus watchers today know them better as 'Old Looks' - a moniker that they inherited upon the introduction of the 'Fishbowl' or 'New Look' series in 1959.

Of note on # 8906 is the early use of a two piece destination sign glass, a vertical windshield that Yellow later modified in production to a 24 degree angle to reduce glare and, for PSCT, a custom made cast aluminum company badge under the windshield along with recessed fog lights under the head lamps.

The small bus to the right of the frame, also belonging to PSCT, was one of several hundred light duty Yellow Model 733's that were used generally as feeders to main lines from low volume routes.

Photo from the Motor Bus Society Library thanks to Dave Mackey.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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gmnewlook



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Montreal, QC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Frankie! That's the first time I've seen a Provincial Transport bus in colour! I like the "TERMINUS DE L'EST" sign on the front screen. That meant it went to the Berri street Provincial Transport terminus, built in 1951, which is now closed since last year with the opening of the new Gare d'Autocars de Montr?al right next to the old PT terminal.

I'd like to use that photo if it's possible since I live in Montreal and I am learning about bus (transit and coach) operations in the 50s and 60s.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gmnewlook & frankie,

Of unusual note on Provincial # 4004 is the very practical optional 'ribbed' non chromium bumper which was more impervious to the usual incursions and the odd Diesel fresh air intake over the rear quarter window (the center bus in the row of three to the right of the frame does have the standard intake).

Nice photo!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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frankie



Age: 77
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 745
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gmnewlook wrote:

I'd like to use that photo if it's possible since I live in Montreal and I am learning about bus (transit and coach) operations in the 50s and 60s.


The photos are copyrighted from Bill Luke & Linda Metler's highly recommended OLD LOOK BUSES / YELLOW COACH AND GM IN THE '40's AND '50's. If you enjoy photos (and text) of old look buses of all sizes and uses, be sure to add this book to your collection. 110 pages of quality photos!

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Seen sometime in late 1940 leaving the Sip Avenue Terminal in Jersey City is fleet # 8906 - a 1940 Yellow Coach Model TDE (Transit Diesel Electric) 4001 and one of thirty likenesses number between 8900 and 8929 operating for Public Service Coordinated Transport (PSCT) of Newark, New Jersey.

The 40 passenger 33 foot long TDE 4001, built exclusively for and to the specifications of PSCT, was among the first of Yellow's new 'Monocoque' design transit buses in which the fuselage itself became the load carrying member thus eliminating the chassis and its added weight.

Yellow had advertised this latest offering as its 'Streamlined Transit' line but bus watchers today know them better as 'Old Looks' - a moniker that they inherited upon the introduction of the 'Fishbowl' or 'New Look' series in 1959.

Of note on # 8906 is the early use of a two piece destination sign glass, a vertical windshield that Yellow later modified in production to a 24 degree angle to reduce glare and, for PSCT, a custom made cast aluminum company badge under the windshield along with recessed fog lights under the head lamps.

The small bus to the right of the frame, also belonging to PSCT, was one of several hundred light duty Yellow Model 733's that were used generally as feeders to main lines from low volume routes.

Photo from the Motor Bus Society Library thanks to Dave Mackey.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York




Here's a Yellow Coach ad from Bus Transportation Magazine describing the attributes of their Diesel Electric line and showing the model TDE 4001 (as seen above) built exclusively for New Jersey's Public Service Coordinated Transport in 1940.

The GM/Yellow art department did a great job of air brushing the photo but never touched the destination sign! (BTW; can anyone understand what that sign says?).

Sure looks like the model bus below is exiting the Jersey side of the Lincoln Tunnel.

Photo by toddhalliemaya and has already been sold on eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind you, it's been a decade since I have walked along the thriving and lengthy business district of Bergenline Avenue from Union City north to West New York, Guttenberg, North Bergen, and the precise intersection called Nungessers. The 61 has been replaced by NJT 159 (about five trips hourly) and, if I'm correct, swarms of local and interstate jitneys.
----
Nungesser's importance arose from the fact that it is the northernmost intersection of Hudson County. Early entrepreneurs who wished to provide jitney service would apply to the political bosses of Hudson County, but their power ended at Nungessers. I think most of the routes crossing the Hudson-Bergen County line were interstate routes. In the past, you could not travel local on them, because that would cut into the patronage of the county-approved routes.
---
How many routes terminated at Nungessers in, say the 1950's? I would guess five or six: One or two Hudson Blvd routes, Park Avenue, the Bergenline-to-NY Route 61 as shown, probably a Bergenline to Journal Square route. Our man from Union City (NYC Omnibus 2629) will probably be more accurate about this than myself. My residence in WNY was limited to a fascinating six months in 1968.
---
Nungessers has an entry in Wikipedia. The name as a destination is much more precise than Jamaica or Bridge Plaza.
Joe
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought you guys would get a kick out of this 1941 Champion Spark Plug ad that appeared in Bus Transportation Magazine (my Bible) touting their product and showcasing Peerless Stages, Inc. of Oakland, California as a loyal customer.

Pictured in the ad is fleet # 201 - a 1938 Yellow Coach Model 742 and one of four likenesses numbered 200 to 203 delivered to Peerless in that year.

The 37 passenger model 742 was a Parlor Car version of the transit model 740 powered by a 707 cubic inch 6 cylinder GM gasoline engine transversely mounted at the rear and coupled to a mechanical transmission using Yellow's patented angle drive.

The interiors boasted plushly upholstered reclining seats, curtained windows, large capacity overhead luggage racks and extra canvas covered trunk stowage at the rear of the roof.

Of note on # 201 are the passenger safety sash bars and the option of motorized roof ventilation as can be detected by the air intakes to either side of the destination sign.

Also shown below is a repainted # 200 of the quartet at the company's yards in the early forties.

Ad photo courtesy of 4509bus and is up for bid on eBay as item #
370653959019.
Photo of # 200 from the Redden Archives courtesy of NorCal Bus Fans gallery.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc. Jamaica, New York


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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, Mr. 'L'!
I am not familiar with that type.....I am wondering if it's a mechanical cousin to Greyhound's Yellow 719 and 743 Supercoaches? They seem to be similar, although some of Greyhound's were powered by the new Detroit Diesel's....
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