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'Bus Nostalgia'
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Rick




Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that's an odd one. Must have been chilly, too.

Judging by the placement of the mirrors the driver was sitting well back into the bus.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr "L" - Rick - All -

This SFe coach might have been chilly if it served Wichita KS plants. I have seen other refs the coach was built by the line at Wichita.
The statement is puzzling, in that the major shops of the owning railroad at Topeka.

So far, I have seen no detail of what routes served by this cleverly done, Monster Of The Highway class vehicle. On "Zoom" view, it
is not clear the States of displayed plates. One appears to be period series of Calfornia tags. Two other plates displayed, but why?...

......................Vern.............
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears as though the Greyhound Corporation had a hand in many of the Fairs and Expositions that took place across the U.S. during the Twentieth Century! - and I'd wager that it kept their design studio busy year round coming up with unique and interesting vehicles to complement the themes of each extravaganza.

Their 1936 entry at the Great Lakes Expo held at Cleveland, Ohio was just that as shown below in a very ornate passenger body pulled by a 1936 White Model 718 'Super Power' tractor (the White is a surprise because of Greyhound's allegiance to GM at the time).

I would imagine that there were numbers of these vehicles connecting perimeter transit terminals with a myriad of pavilions.

A little history of the Fair;

The Great Lakes Exposition, held in Cleveland during 1936 and 1937, drew over seven million visitors from around the Midwest and beyond with the hope that it would revitalize a city torn by years of depression.

The lakefront industrial fair, a forerunner of today's World's Fairs, featured a "Streets of the World" international shopping and dining exhibit, a Hall of Progress, a Marine Theater, and a variety of specialty gardens.

Photo courtesy Trailways Forever Memories # B91

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr "L" -

Choice of WHITE power? Did GREYHOUND really have a choice?

I don't think so! Note the Fair was a display of boosterism and rah-rah for Cleveland. Recall in the case that when in Atlanta, it was considered rude
to order other than Coca-Cola. In Cleveland, I'll conjecture it would have been deemed unmannerly and tacky to suggest other than a home built
WHITE unit. Civic pride, and all that...

IIRC, in the same time frame, wasn't the "Crazy Russian" doing design for WHITE? It's a bit of a surprise we don't see an example of his product...

....................Vern.....................
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured below with no visible fleet number and no known model designation is a 1924 Fageol open topped double decked Safety Coach delivered as one of two demonstrators to the newly formed Los Angeles Motor Bus Company in February of that year.

This 48 passenger 'two man' operation boasted the latest 6 cylinder Hall-Scott engine, a 230 inch wheelbase, pneumatic tires and the first use of Westinghouse Air Brakes on a bus.

In addition to being wider than what was the accepted standard at the time of about 90 inches, the bodies of these double deckers were offset several inches to the left to prevent listing too unpleasantly at curbs.

The Los Angeles Motor Bus Company, predecessor to the many flags that would follow, was formed in 1923 in a joint venture between both the Pacific Electric and Los Angeles Railways to institute a comprehensive new motor bus service for major arteries in the rapidly expanding metropolis.

The numbering of the buses was in keeping with the many oddities of 'Tinsel Town' in that the evens belonged to L.A. Railway and the odds to P.E. (go figure that one out!).

While the history of railways in Los Angeles has been well documented, very little information exists on early bus operations and, particularly, rosters of equipment accept to say that according to the MBS Directory of Preserved Coaches dated October 1989 one 1924 Fageol Safety Coach exists and was or is in the hands of Peninsula Charter Lines of Palo Alto, California.

Photo courtesy of the Fageol Motors Company Archive.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to our own well stocked gallery, and the lens of photographer Al Holtz, we see fleet number 5646 - a 1958 GM Model TDH 5105 and one of 67 (5600 to 5666) built for D.C. Transit and delivered in July of that year.

Much has already been said about the wide bodied 51 passenger 5105 model, and especially the fact that over 3600 were produced - a GM Old Look record! (see page 2 of this thread).

What makes D.C.'s 5105's so special though is that they were the first and only GM Old Look transits to be outfitted with factory Air Conditioning - and very pleasantly welcomed by sweltering passengers in the nations capital.

While GM had been air conditioning buses as early as 1938, the 5105's were the first to have main engine driven compressors in lieu of separate underfloor gasoline auxiliaries.

A prototype Air Conditioned sample saw test service in New York with Fifth Avenue Coach but was eventually sold to New Orleans Public Service.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the closest thing to a 'jet propelled' bus came in the late fifties with General Motor's experiments in Gas Turbine engines.

This was not a new concept as the company had shown advanced design prototype turbine power plants in both Chevrolet and GMC trucks several years before, but the first bus to be demonstrated with a 'GT300 Whirlfire engine (known as GM Turbo Cruiser I) was culled from a stock TDH 4512 which was later reconverted to original equipment and sold to Detroit Street Railway.

In a second version of a Turbo Cruiser with an improved engine, a stock TDH 5303 with a jazzed up front end (as seen below) toured the country although it was never used in revenue service.

That same 5303 was then updated to a version III and, while its final disposition is not known, it is likely that GM destroyed it as was its habit with most of its experiments.

The system was by no means a failure but operators involved in the study felt that it was too far ahead of its time, too costly and difficult to maintain and unproven.

Original GM photo courtesy of Getty Images.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr "L" -

Agree! The technology was too far ahead of the curve.

Besides, it has long been difficult to keep the Shops guys happy, with possibility of entry of a completely new and unaccustomed power plant
on some of the equipment. Long term outcomes often not pretty, but expedient...

.................Vern..................
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all talk about the 'good old days' when buses were built to last and used the finest materials available to that end.

Pictured below is a Rosa Parks era Montgomery Bus System pre paired window GM Old Look sporting extremely comfortable and shiny genuine leather seats - a far cry from today's slash proof plastic jobs!

Admittedly, that opulence didn't last too long because by the late forties GM switched to Naugahyde and eventually to vinyl when Naugas wound up on the endangered species list! (only kidding).

GM had an exclusive contract with the Heywood-Wakefield Company of Wakefield, Mass. - a foremost manufacturer of seating for not only buses but railroad cars as well and included cane equipment for the New York City subway system as early as 1930.

Some history of Heywood-Wakefield;

In 1897 the 70 year old Heywood Company merged to become Heywood-Wakefield.

Originally, they specialized in wicker and rattan furniture but by the time of their 30th. anniversary together in 1926, Heywood-Wakefield was producing a wide variety of cane and wood seat chairs, school furniture, railway car seats, bus seats, reed and fiber furniture and opera and theater chairs.

By 1992 the South Beach Furniture Company bought the remnants of the company and began reproducing their original designs.

Thanks go to Montgomery, Alabama Archives and Coach-Built for the within information and photos.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of you probably know that the Fifth Avenue Coach Company with roots and routes dating to 1885, and possibly the oldest bus line in the country, was for nearly 80 years New York City's premiere transit carrier.

But, did you also know that the company built buses from the ground up including chassis not only for their own use but for other operators nationwide?

Actually, it all came about because equipment that Fifth Avenue was purchasing from a French manufacturer became impossible to obtain during World War I.

Some seventeen hundred buses were built by Fifth Avenue between 1918 and 1936 although by 1930 they switched to Yellow Model 'Z' chassis.

Shown below and thanks to Bus Transportation Magazine Vol. 1 dated November 1922, we see a national ad for their wares.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


Fifth Avenue Motor Coaches are Completely Built and Are Equipped in Our Shops
Builds Up Suburban Passenger Traffic
RELIABILITY is the factor which most strongly
appeals in the establishment of suburban serv-
ice. Without it, the community cannot hope to
grow and prosper.
In the Fifth Avenue Motor Coach, reliability has
been secured as a result of developments under many
years of actual service. Each part has been chosen
only after long and arduous service tests. You get
the entire Motor Coach, fully equipped and ready
for operation from us. There is no divided responsi-
bility about that.

Our own successful operating and maintenance
methods which have given the Fifth
Avenue Coach Company's service an enviable record
for reliable transportation, are offered to you when
you buy Fifth Avenue Coaches.



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buron444



Age: 78
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Madrid (Spain)

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. I am a Spaniard just registered in Bus Talk (you can see my (very short) presentation in the corresponding forum).

Recently I was stunned by this picture of a 1958-registered Spanish motorcoach:

(from http://www.camionesclasicos.com/FORO/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=18369 )

I was stunned because this coach body is totally different from any one conceivable in Spain, by then or in any time. I find it to be somehow alike to the Mack MV-620-D Shocked

My question is: Could it be anything of American origin?


By the way, the operating company was La Uníon de Benisa, a well known Eastern Spain operator.

Thanks in advance for any guess.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buron444,

Firstly, let me take the opportunity to welcome you to BusTalk and say that we very much look forward to your input and contributions especially about bus transportation in your part of the world - I'm just sorry that I don't speak Spanish!

The image of the bus that you posted is nothing like anything American made that I am familiar with.

The rear treatment though is reminiscent of the Mack MV 620 D of which only one sample was ever fabricated (perhaps Mack copied it or it copied Mack!).

Anyway, good to have you aboard.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buron444 -

Welcome to you! Great to have you with us!

I have no idea about heritage of the coach in your photo. I do recall the Spanish had some good engineering work happening in the era.
I will teasingly remark to Mr 'L' here that the coach vaguely suggests a too little, too late effort by (US) ACF-Brill? It never happened that
way, but an amusing thought...

Mr 'L' - Envision it with "CONTINENTAL BUS" labeled on it? <G>

.....................Vern.....................
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buron444



Age: 78
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Madrid (Spain)

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to both of you for your replies, even if it seems that the thing in question is still unidentified.

>>> the Spanish had some good engineering work happening in the era
Do you mean the Pegaso Z-403 Monocasco, for instance?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegaso_Z-403


Regards,
José Antonio López
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jose -

Indeed! The PEGASO Z-403 a great example. A bit of a surprise the units had a build of but fifty (50) units. One can try to second guess
the minds of the buyers decades back. The bus surely warranted better sales...

And, now, the business of various issues with Wikipedia. Clearly, the PEGASO predated the SCENICRUISER. But, GREYHOUND had been
signaling, just after close of WWII, it had a lot of ideas for new equipment.

Yet, an existing bus that doesn't get much recognition is the KENWORTH KHO of 1934. See site of Washington State Railroad Historical
Society, of Pasco WA, for a photo of NORTH COAST LINES # 708. Aluminum bodied work! This coach also discussed here, and "Search"
on Kenworth KHO yields leads. http://www.wsrhs.org/mis.htm

.................Vern................
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