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Cyberider
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007 Posts: 501 Location: Tempe, AZ
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Just found a photo of one in a mid-to-late 70's Rail Classics Bus & Trolley Special. Apparently they were on the way out at that time as the main buses in use were new Neoplans but the Flxible Clippers were still used at peak hours. Orange, white, and silver as I remembered them. |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky wrote: | Cyberider wrote: | I seem to remember these used in some kind of airport service in L.A. in the early 70's. I suppose the later ones didn't use the Buick straight-eight! |
Dave,
The relationship between Buick and Flxible went as far back as the inception of Flxible in 1922.
Flxible was a body builder and found the Buick commercial chassis and engine to be an ideal match for their coaches.
I suspect that they continued to use these engines until the end of Clipper production because Buick wound up with an over abundance of straight eight blocks in the mid fifties.
General Motors had planned to introduce the Buick V-8 in the 1955 model year along with both Pontiac and Chevrolet.
For whatever the reason, which may have been keen competition with Mercury and De Soto, they brought out Buick's new engine ahead of time in 1953.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY |
Pictured below is an ad for the Buick 'Fire Ball' straight eight engine used in most Flxible Clippers through the early sixties.
Known as the 'FB-320', this engine was a slightly souped up version of Buick's famous model seventy used in regular production .
Buick was a smart move for Flxible in that parts in general were available through authorized Buick dealers across the country.
All Flxible Clippers powered as such carried the familiar porcelain Buick logo affixed to the rear cowel.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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RTS_04
Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 66
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Not to be a nit-picker, Mr. L, but the 04 was NOT the last of the GM-built RTS'. The Series 06, built briefly in '86 and carried over by TMC in '87, was the last GM-initiated RTS series. Interesting note - the majority of Series 06 photography you'll see in TMC ads and literature are actually GMC buses with their nameplates airbrushed out.
For what it's worth, though, the Series 04 was the first RTS series with the "functional" A/C (with condenser mounted above engine compartment) and also the last with the independent front suspension. The 06 would introduce a solid beam axle, not unlike the New Looks.
Trying to scrape my brain of data, 04 was also the first series not to use the 8V-71, and the only series GM attempted to make into an articulated version (which was NOT called the 05, as people sometimes think. 05 was a seperate beast altogether, which I'm lucky to have photos of in the book).
Nice postings, though - I love the ad with the Old Looks! They're parked on South Boulevard between Woodward Avenue and Opdyke Rd. in Pontiac, MI. I can take a pic sometime soon, but it looks NOTHING like it did back then!
Another interesting fact - at one time, GMC built virtually all products - including light, medium and heavy trucks, vans, motor homes and buses - at one property. Impressive, considering modern plants have capacity for usually one or two vehicle platforms at once... |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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RTS_04 wrote: | Interesting note - the majority of Series 06 photography you'll see in TMC ads and literature are actually GMC buses with their nameplates airbrushed out. |
I might add that NovaBus continued this tradition. I've seen promotional materials for Nova's RTS that features a photograph of a NYCTA 8400-series bus - a 1993 TMC.
Quote: | 05 was a seperate beast altogether, which I'm lucky to have photos of in the book |
Interesting... I can't wait to see this book! |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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RTS-04,
I know I stepped over the line on the RTS's, and was actually repeating what I had read!
I guess I should stick with the GM 'Old Looks' and prewar Macks that I am so familiar with.
You mention that air brushing was used to alter the 'GMC' to 'TMC' in some RTS ads; I never remember seeing an RTS with the TMC logo under the windshield.
I all fairness though, the only RTS's that I have any familiarity with are those of both LACMTA here in Los Angeles and, of course, the MTA in New York and, to my knowledge, neither ever displayed the TMC name.
I had the occasion in 1958 to visit both the Cadillac plant in Detroit and Truck and Coach in Pontiac.
You know how when they want to describe something as being very big, they usually refer to football fields? Well, I would say that GM's operation in Pontiac had to be the size of at least ten football fields (at least that's what it seemed like to me).
They had room enough to build all their models and then some - it was amazing!
BTW; the ride to Pontiac from Detroit was very interesting on a GM TDH 5105 operated by the Great Lakes Transit Company (solid power!).
Thanks for putting me straight on the RTS evolution, and for the compliments on my postings.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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More from Flxible showing the versatility of the famous 'Clipper".
The first photo; - an adaptation as a television mobile news unit for WKY - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
The next picture; - a chest X-Ray cruiser for the Ohio Department of Health (notice the special heightened roof).
Lastly, a medley of company offerings in this factory photo taken in 1961 including (left to right) a Clipper, a transit and a 'High Level Cruiser'.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky wrote: | You mention that air brushing was used to alter the 'GMC' to 'TMC' in some RTS ads; I never remember seeing an RTS with the TMC logo under the windshield. |
No, the GMC nameplate was airbrushed out entirely. There never was, as far I know, an RTS with a TMC nameplate (although Citycruisers and U.S.-built MCIs had them). |
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RTS_04
Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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ripta42 wrote: | Mr. Linsky wrote: | You mention that air brushing was used to alter the 'GMC' to 'TMC' in some RTS ads; I never remember seeing an RTS with the TMC logo under the windshield. |
No, the GMC nameplate was airbrushed out entirely. There never was, as far I know, an RTS with a TMC nameplate (although Citycruisers and U.S.-built MCIs had them). |
The only TMC nameplate was a modified version of the GMC buildplate mounted in the front stepwell - although this was only on the 06 series; 08 buses never had 'em.
I call this a nameplate because it never carried any sort of build information. GMC plates would carry a generic model number and a serial sequence; TMC removed that altogether.
Interestingly, the prototype for the 2nd series of 08 front fascia was sent to Altoona with a plain "TMC" lettering in Arial font. Ugggly.
Mr. L, you didn't step over the line! I really appreciate all you've given on this site; don't ever stop!
BTW, everything's at the publisher, they claim I actually submitted "too much." Hope that's a good thing... |
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nycbusfan
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 258 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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RTS_04 wrote: | ripta42 wrote: | Mr. Linsky wrote: | You mention that air brushing was used to alter the 'GMC' to 'TMC' in some RTS ads; I never remember seeing an RTS with the TMC logo under the windshield. |
No, the GMC nameplate was airbrushed out entirely. There never was, as far I know, an RTS with a TMC nameplate (although Citycruisers and U.S.-built MCIs had them). |
The only TMC nameplate was a modified version of the GMC buildplate mounted in the front stepwell - although this was only on the 06 series; 08 buses never had 'em.
I call this a nameplate because it never carried any sort of build information. GMC plates would carry a generic model number and a serial sequence; TMC removed that altogether.
Interestingly, the prototype for the 2nd series of 08 front fascia was sent to Altoona with a plain "TMC" lettering in Arial font. Ugggly.
Mr. L, you didn't step over the line! I really appreciate all you've given on this site; don't ever stop!
BTW, everything's at the publisher, they claim I actually submitted "too much." Hope that's a good thing... |
In some of the MTA's Novas there is a TMC name plate. Why is it there? |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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NovaBus never put their own builders plates in (at least NYCTA) RTSes; they simply used leftover TMC plates. |
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RTS_04
Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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ripta42 wrote: | NovaBus never put their own builders plates in (at least NYCTA) RTSes; they simply used leftover TMC plates. |
Even on the late Novas? That's odd.
Early Novas continued to use the TMC nameplates through the first few years of Nova's production. SMART's '94 and '95 T80-206s are prime examples, wearing the TMC nameplate in the stepwell. Side note; early Nova RTS literature kept the TMC logo in footers.
But you say Nova didn't even have build plates? Do you mean the actual build plate above the driver?
If so, that's REALLY weird. Nova modified this plate to read Nova BUS, Inc. after taking over. Some coaches had this plate with TMC emblems in the stepwell, but I've never seen a Nova that had a TMC serial/build plate.
That's not saying it couldn't have happened. Operations in Roswell during the late TMC and Nova years got quite sloppy. |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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RTS_4,
Thanks for the compliment - my only trouble is that I'm going to run out of material pretty soon!
Here's an observation followed by a question; You would think that 'TMC' would have been so proud of the fact that they took control of RTS production that the first thing that they would have done was to replace the 'G' with a 'T' under the windshield! (at least, that's what I would have done!).
Here's the question; knowing how devious some corporations can be when it comes to selling out, do you think that GM stipulated that no name appear on the exterior of any RTS that TMC made?
Stranger codiciles have governed such sales, and this remains well within the realm of possibility - why, I don't know?
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY |
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RTS_04
Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky wrote: | RTS_4,
Thanks for the compliment - my only trouble is that I'm going to run out of material pretty soon!
Here's an observation followed by a question; You would think that 'TMC' would have been so proud of the fact that they took control of RTS production that the first thing that they would have done was to replace the 'G' with a 'T' under the windshield! (at least, that's what I would have done!).
Here's the question; knowing how devious some corporations can be when it comes to selling out, do you think that GM stipulated that no name appear on the exterior of any RTS that TMC made?
Stranger codiciles have governed such sales, and this remains well within the realm of possibility - why, I don't know?
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY |
Wouldn't surprise me. There were a lot of quirks that resided (still do) within GM. Many of them were sold to TMC along with RTS production...
Interestingly, I've seen the original photos (untouched) of the Columbus GMC RTS 06 that TMC used in their early brochures. In these photos, a cardboard "RTS" was airbrushed, cut and placed over the GMC emblem and photographed as such.
This - along with the the Series 08 demo with 'RTS' painted above the bumper in the same font - makes me think they at least toyed with the idea of badging the buses with RTS logos - but never TMC.
I may be able to find out - the retired marketing director for GMC and TMC coaches (also the man who shot ALL those images we've loved in GMC and TMC ads through the years) lives not 3 minutes from my house. Talk about luck, eh? |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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RTS_04 wrote: | Even on the late Novas? That's odd. |
I'm not 100% sure (I haven't been on a Nova RTS in a few years), but I think later Novas simply had no plate in the stepwell. I've never seen a Nova plate there.
Now that I think of it, I also seem to remember some early TMCs that had a TMC logo pasted over the GM logo on the plate.
Quote: | But you say Nova didn't even have build plates? Do you mean the actual build plate above the driver?
If so, that's REALLY weird. Nova modified this plate to read Nova BUS, Inc. after taking over. Some coaches had this plate with TMC emblems in the stepwell, but I've never seen a Nova that had a TMC serial/build plate. |
No, I was only referring to the plate in the stepwell, not the data plate in the driver's compartment. |
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RailBus63 Moderator
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 1063
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky wrote: | Here's an observation followed by a question; You would think that 'TMC' would have been so proud of the fact that they took control of RTS production that the first thing that they would have done was to replace the 'G' with a 'T' under the windshield! (at least, that's what I would have done!). |
TMC's parent company MCI did put their initials on the front of many of the Classic buses built at the Quebec factory. They were big blocky letters compared to the smaller GM logo they replaced, though, so maybe we should be happy that TMC didn't do something similar to the RTS. |
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