BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Historical Buses of NYC: Gen 1 Fishbowls I

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Historical Buses of NYC: Gen 1 Fishbowls I Reply with quote

GM New Looks were exceptionally well received by New York City bus operators. Unlike GM Old Looks or competitive transit buses, every NYC bus line would purchase fleets of new Fishbowls, and they ultimately became the standard transit buses in NYC from the 1960’s until they were replaced by ADB’s in the 1980’s. Perhaps not surprisingly, NYCTA and MaBSTOA would come to own the largest number of Fishbowls, acquiring 3,788 units between 1959 and 1973. In October 1959, NYCTA purchased 190 TDH-5301’s (NYCTA 1-190) under contract MB-10. Painted in dark green with light green script lettering along the rooflines and gold numbers, these units had green longitudinal fiberglass seats installed forward of the exit door, and red 2-and-2 seats installed aft of the rear door. NYCTA New Looks used armored rectangular side directional signals mounted above and slightly ahead of each front wheel opening. They lacked front and rear center-mounted “Michigan Marker” lamps. These Fishbowls also were equipped with parking lot heater connections, which were located behind a small hinged access door located at the left rear quarter just beneath the radiator filler door. This feature enabled hot water to be circulated through the cooling systems of buses parked outdoors overnight in cold weather. The earliest 5301’s had front destination signs with small, centered lettering; they also lacked side destination signs. Later TA 5301’s and all subsequent TA and MaBSTOA New Looks had destination signs with larger numerals and letters, and used small crank-operated side destination signs installed in the right-side standee window strip just ahead of the exit door. Rear route signs were installed inside the lower right hand corner of the rear windshield. These earliest TA New Looks initially went to work out of the Flatbush Depot in the Brooklyn Division. They later were reassigned to the Queens Division, where they served from 1964 to 1967; they were retired in 1973.The TA would buy 710 additional 5301’s in 3 subsequent orders. NYCTA 501-805 were built in July-August 1960 under contract MB-11. They initially were assigned to Fresh Pond and East New York Depots, where they helped to retire the 1950 Mack C-50DT’s and the 1948 St. Louis trolley coaches. Later, they worked in the Queens Division from 1971 to 1975. NYCTA 1001-1130 arrived in June-July 1961 under contract MB-12. They were assigned to the 5th Avenue Depot. These buses finally were replaced by ADB’s in 1981. NYCTA 2001-2175 were the last 5301’s purchased by NYCTA. Purchased in June-August 1962 under contract MB-13, these units were sent to the Flushing and Jamaica Depots, where they ran until replaced by ADB’s in 1982. Most TDH-5301’s eventually were repainted into the NYCTA’s 2-tone blue livery of the early 1970’s, and a few units survived long enough to be repainted into the white and blue livery of the late 1970’s. During 1968, Motorola 2-way radio equipment was installed. Blade-type radio antennae were affixed on the forward rooftops. These antennae later proved to be vulnerable to automated bus washers, and were covered with rectangular fiberglass enclosures. They also were fitted with flexible boom-type microphones and PA systems, which included external speakers mounted aft of the rear edge of the front door. A set of 4 horizontal bars was installed at the lower portion of the B/O’s side window, ostensibly to keep unauthorized intruding arms away from the B/O. In the mid-1960’s, these Fishbowls were fitted with circular red and blue “TA” decals affixed to the front roof over both the entrance door on the curb side and over the B/O’s window on the streetside. These emblems later were replaced with 2-tone “M Transit” decals. The TA Vintage Bus Fleet boasts a trio of these early New Looks, making the TDH-5301 the best represented Fishbowl in the entire historical collection: NYCTA 100 is based at QV, NYCTA 1059 is stored at JA and NYCTA 2151 is kept at YUK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Radio Antenna i.d. Reply with quote

Q-65a,

In the beginning...

Old Looks and New Looks received a vertical whip antenna
for VHF Lo-band (30-50 mhz) only. In the 2-way radio business,
we referred to these loaded whips as "Sewer Pipes". These antenna,
while they were mechanically about 2.5 to 3 feet tall, were 5-6ft tall
electrically.




Sewer Pipes were replaced with "Row Boats"...which were a
horizontal loop VHF Lo-band (30-50 mhz) antenna inside a "radome" cover.
The Rowboats were less damage prone to tree limbs and the wash.


Sometimes, GMC TRS buses had the oddball VHF Lo-band Sharkfin,
instead of the Rowboat. No ryhme or reason.




On VHF Hi-band (150-174 mhz), the "blade type" antenna you mention,
we called them "Shark-Fins" for obvious reasons...

To compare, see these 2 Flxibles...
The one in front has VHF Hi-band Sharkfin,
the one in back has a VHF Lo-band Rowboat..




On 800 mhz (NYCTA Bus system) and the 900mhz NYC DOT Bus System,
they use Radome covered whips, or as we call them, Snowcones.



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Waynejay



Age: 58
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Location: Silver Spring, MD

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks sooo much for explaining the various antennae used by NYCTA. This cought my interst quickly as a youngster in the 70s. I remember seeinga few (not many) buses with the "sewer pipe" type you mentioned. Of course most NYCTA/MABSTOA depots used the low band "rowboat" type antennae. I always wonder why most used the row boats and a few depots used the sharkfin type.

TA/OA last buses to get the low band "row boat" were the Grumman Flxible 870s. I remember the TA/OA RTS having the low band blade type and those depots using the sharkfin put them on their RTS's. At this point I was thinking that the TA found something better in the blade type to replace the rowboats.

One question I have for you is in regards to buses assigned to Queens Village. QV buses used antennae that was sort of a cross between the sharkfin and blade. It was appeard to be a bit shorter and higher than the sharkfin, but not quite as high as the blade. Even the handsets on the buses were different. My understanding is that this was some some of experiment. Do you know any other details about this? Not many QV buses here during those days, but here's one that I found.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caine824



Age: 54
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice pic from the B9 shot. The bank in the back ground is still there. #1076..was that assigned to Ulmer Park?
Also, if u see the shot of bus #600 assigned to the B42 route, you can see a GMC old look in the background Surprised My hope is maybe Busch who does 1/87 scale of gmc buses will do a New York city design like what's in the pictures.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Bus antenna Reply with quote

WayneJay

Probably what you saw at Queens Village was just a different version of the
VHF high band "Sharkfin" from another manufacturer.

Most often they are referred to as "low profile transit antennas", but each company made them slightly different. I believe the slightly taller ones were made by Antenna Specialist and the shorter ones made by Sinclair.
(If you look at NYCTA subway pictures, the Sinclairs were installed vertically on the front of the railcar).

Another company in the game was DB Products...but that was a total different look, whose antenna looked like an Igloo on the roof. MSBTA had them on UHF in Nassau County in the 70's and early 80's.

Early, NYCTA bus radios were special products developed to NYCTA specs by General Electric and RCA. Motorola came into the picture with the move to 800mhz and the "Motorola Metrocom" series Spectra transit radio later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Waynejay



Age: 58
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Location: Silver Spring, MD

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a bunch.

Yes, I do recall that several older NYCTA subway car classes used that same sharkfin antenna.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I really like about BusTalk; you learn something new every day!!!
Thanks much for the detailed radio info, Free-transfer; well done!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group