BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Vern.....

You are welcome!

Regarding Mr. James Kerrigan, I was able to glean the following from (what else?) an ANGELFIRE page, so, I am just relaying some of the more important "highlights" here.....

".....Kerrigan came up through the ranks at GREYHOUND, and eventually attained the position of president; when he got into a war with GREYHOUND's chairman, he was escorted to the door......"

".....though he ran the nation's largest bus company, he did not have a clue about how to run one that had to compete for passengers and scratch for business......"

"......he had a mecurial personality, a huge ego, a short attention span, and an all-consuming passion to 'get' GREYHOUND to avenge his dismissal.......the combination was lethal for his company....."

"Days Of Our Lives", anyone?<G>

NYO

[HwyHaulier]

NYO -

Again, any idea precisely who made the assessment?

You have hinted at a long running Holy War about GREYHOUND. That is, the endless dispute of the two camps:
1) All GL did was hire drivers, and brought them up thru management ranks, or, 2) Recognition that some parts
of the business demanded professional, trained craftsmen in obscure skills of Accounting, Finance, and so on.

Or, C F W Y (and U P S) always much better at this, with an awareness to hire specialists as needed...

.......................Vern....................

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Vern.....

What I'm going to do in this instance is simply provide the ANGELFIRE link and let you work around it ( I know you've had experience in the past!)<G>

The page is simply titled:

"GREYHOUND/TRAILWAYS BAD BOYS"

This might have made for a nice little TV "reality show" in itself......

NYO

http://www.angelfire.com/al/silverball/badboys.html

[HwyHaulier]

NYO -

Oddly, this "popped" right away. OK. Now the bothersome question? Who is saying this? Note, at end of page, an
E-Mail from Wilma Kerrigan, explaining it is easy to throw mud. Hit and run anonymous attacks just don't "git it"...

So that? Clearly much controversy of the Kerrigan years?

......................Vern......................

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Vern......

Glad that one ANGELFIRE link did not cause a hissy fit!<G>

"Holy Wars" At GREYHOUND......

Better that you just sit back with a little annisette and some bisciotti, with a little classic Jerry Vale playing in the background, and start in reading "THE GREYHOUND STORY" and "HOUNDS OF THE ROAD"....you want "Holy Wars", pal, you'll surely fine 'em here!<G>

Recall, awhile ago, elsewhere, we discussed at length some of the more "colorful" fellows at GREYHOUND, including one gentleman who suddenly subjected employees to a battery of intense physcological tests, which, according to Oscar Schisgall's "THE GREYHOUND STORY" turned into a bloodbath that effectively "......cost the company some of the most experienced people on the payroll. It sent shock waves through the ranks. Nobody knew how safe his job was......."

This was under the leadership of Arthur S. Genet, who became president of GREYHOUND in January of 1956.

There is, of course, much, more more to this, within the pages of both aforementioned works......

NYO

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Regarding the never-built new midtown GREYHOUND terminal......

".......GREYHOUND's terminal project had the approval of the Mid-Town Reality Association, representing some $180 million in City property......."

"......the new terminal would reduce Greyhound's present mid-town Manhattan miles by 77%......."

"......GREYHOUND did not get the new facilities it wanted on 34th St.; instead, it got a lot of publicity that caused people to believe that it was seeking an unfair exception to Port Authority rules and New York ordinances......"

Source: "HOUNDS OF THE ROAD", by Carlton Jackson, Chapter 4, "TOILS AND TROUBLES"......

[HwyHaulier]

NYO -

In all of this: Jackson made no claim of holding actual operating experience in the industry. A preferred quote
a reference to the actual, primary source (in this instance, an explanatory note in Appendix concerning Ch. 4)...

The trouble being, if we simply list some copy, "...as reported in Jackson..." work, it doesn't identify primary source.
In this instance, Jackson makes no claim to support assertion of a possible "77%" reduction in Manhattan miles.
It is useful to know who actually stated it, as it may reasonably be challenged. Avoidable Manhattan miles could
have been accomplished in part, too, with heavy maintenance support at, say, Newburgh, Binghamton or Buffalo...

Lesson? If the whole body of "fan" research to the accepted standard, perhaps the embarrassing, intellectually
barren foolishness about National City Lines may have been averted? So little of it shows careful research!

........................Vern...(Fr., Hon., S.J.).................

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Vern......

While, of course, any self-respecting, died-in-the-wool, card-carrying HOUND fanatic will, of course, want to focus much of their attentions on those magnificent coaches of yesteryear, I fully agree with you; there is such a tremendous wealth of "boardroom activities" that, all too often, are woefully neglected by far too many of the "average" fans.

As you and I both know, ANY production is simply NOT going to work, no matter how lavish and stunning it may be, without a little help from the guys "backstage"!

Though I was able to learn quite a bit from various internet sources (including STRAYHOUND), over the past several years, I will admit that it was not until I was able to obtain my copies of "HOUNDS OF THE ROAD" and "THE GREYHOUND STORY", that I began to really have the chance to get "the inside scoop" of just what made the company tick throughout the years.

You are quite right...it IS far more than just about the BUSES!

This is yet another reason why STRAYHOUND is so sorely missed; here was an invaluable "in depth" site that gave one a thorough education of what GREYHOUND was all about throughout the years.

IMHO, it's FAR too valuable a legacy to simply ignore, or, just take at "face value".......

NYO

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

All:

That GREYHOUND once operated several depots in Manhattan recalls those halcyon days when the "Hound" was indeed the undisputed "King Of The Road".

Earlier in this thread, our good and wise friend Mr. "L" stated that "politics does make for strange bedfellows", and Vern, also, brought up another valid point, (one that certainly rings true) that the GREYHOUND story is more than just "fan based", meaning, that it goes far beyond the buses themselves, though, of course, that's the MAIN reason why we're all in this hobby in the first place.....the BUSES!<G>

Both "HOUNDS OF THE ROAD" (Carlton Jackson), and "THE GREYHOUND STORY" (Oscar Schisgall), though, of course, telling us much about the buses themselves, take us far beyond just the vehicles which transported the masses.

Corporate dealings, boardroom meetings, executive descisions, labor unrest, strikes, egomanical company honchos, experiments......so many thoroughly fascinating aspects of the GREYHOUND empire of long ago......that, again, requires one to "go beyond the buses".

This is especially true in our discussion of GREYHOUND's wishing to build a new mid-town Manhattan terminal back in the 50's, instead of moving into the then-new PABT......here is an excellent example of just how much of a role politics, local zoning laws, and so on, played in the GREYHOUND saga.

Certainly, I had not the slightest inkling whatsoever, that, long ago, GREYHOUND once dabbled with the notion of bus-helicopter service ("GREYHOUND SKYWAYS"), until I started reading Schisgall's "THE GREYHOUND STORY".

These fine works also bring to light the many innovations brought about by GREYHOUND, and the forward-thinking men who made them happen.

Yes.....without a doubt....the GREYHOUND story does indeed go far beyond the buses themselves....but, ahhh, what proud, magnificent, diesel-driven beasts they were, indeed!<G>

NYO

[traildriver]

Getting back to the Capitol (50th street), terminal....I recently watched a showing of the old film "Breakfast At Tiffany's". There is a scene in which Audrey Hepburn and George Peppard see off Buddy Ebsen on a Scenicruiser departing New York City. Does anyone known if that was shot at that terminal, or some studio or local terminal in Hollywood?

[Mr. Linsky]

Here's a little less than well known fact;

The Manhattan and Queens Traction Company ran trolley cars from Manhattan over the Queensborough Bridge and through Queens Boulevard to South Jamaica from 1913 to 1937.

It was in 1937 that two gentlemen - a politically connected lawyer by the name of B. Walter Duncan and a Ralph Bogen who was in some way associated with Greyhound - bought the traction line and formed the Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation which, six years later, was sold to Green Bus Lines.

Just food for thought!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L":

FASCINATING trivia.....who woulda known?<G>

Thanks for sharing!

Some interesting trivia about Mr. Bogan, from "THE GREYHOUND STORY":

".......a man who could almost equal Wickman's strength and fiery use of invective, began by driving a Hibbing taxicab......now, he ambitiously extended his service to driving people to Duluth, 90 miles away.....he drove along narrow, rutted roads, and, in winter, had to supply blankets and hot-brick foot warmers......."

".......he was a self-educated man in every way, reading any magazine of importance that came his way......."

"........many remember Bogan standing on the highway, in sub-freezing weather. his breath spurting in cloudlets, as he ran back and forth, yelling and gesturing as he told GREYHOUND drivers which way to turn, without running into a snowdrift......he was notan office-desk supervisor......you could count on him to be wherever there was trouble, in any type of weather......."

".......when WESTERN GREYHOUND LINES (then a recent aquisition) was put under contract to the War Department, Bogan called on it to send its fleet of buses to transport troops. The man Bogan spoke to sounded dismayed. What was to happen to civilian traffic?"

"......Bogan responded, 'Remind me to discuss that, after we win this war!"

NYO

[HwyHaulier]

NYO -

Flip to the back, and check applicable footnotes, if shown. Cite, if available.

Curious why the writer used term, "WESTERN GREYHOUND LINES". This one isn't "clicking" prior later use in system consolidation...

........................Vern......................

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting GREYHOUND "capsule" history (scroll down page).........

http://www.answers.com/topic/greyhound_lines

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]