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'Bus Nostalgia'
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. 'L' -

Alas! The intercity model of part of the, "...too little, too late..." campaign by the builder. Its city models were good engineering, too...

The Fed's DoJ efforts were so much silliness and fantasy, completely unsupported by realties of the bus market place. That's a long story
all by itself. There was no "Roger Rabbit" else he would have been called to testify...

.....................Vern.................
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ripta42
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Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bus with tailfins. Yikes.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured below is fleet number 1225 - a 1944 Yellow Coach Model TG-3607 and one of thirty five (1201 to 1235 - ser# 0001 to 0035) delivered to Pacific Greyhound Lines of San Francisco, California in February of that year.

Contrary to the belief that no civilian use transit buses were built during the Second World War, the U.S. Office of Defense Transportation (ODT) issued special production permits for operators vital to the war effort (note 'ODT' permit #7439 over the front wheel).

Pacific Greyhound was heavily involved in shuttling civilian defense workers to factories throughout Central California during the war years and was granted a number of these special permits.

While these particular 3607's were single door versions, they had standard transit seating, gasoline engines with mechanical transmissions, curtained windows for passenger comfort on overnight trips and traditional Greyhound fog lamps under the headlights.

Photo taken by Bob Burrows in September 1944, and is courtesy of NorCal Photo Gallery.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
...Pacific Greyhound was heavily involved in shuttling civilian defense workers to factories throughout Central California during the war years and was granted a number of these special permits...


Mr 'L' -

To the point that there was a massive commute operation, run by Pacific between Mare Island/ Vallejo, and points up to one hundred miles distant!
Work at direction of U S Navy...

WWII production had to define "Total Mobilization Effort"! You'll note, in your comment, these coaches gasoline engine powered. Tells us much, if not
all, Detroit Diesel product went to military use...

....................Vern................
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'GM'S SPECIAL PDX 4901'



Pictured below in a factory pose is a 1954 GM Model PDX 4901 and the only one of its kind ever built.

The 40 foot long 49 passenger (47 with lavatory) coach dubbed the Golden Chariot but slated to be called the Super Highway Traveler was built on a PD 4501 (Greyhound Scenicruiser) frame and drive train and appeared to be a bloated version of the popular PD 4104 which had made its debut only the year before.

Powered by twin 4-71 Detroit Diesels installed longitudinally at the rear with a mechanical transmission, the PD 4901’s combined horsepower was rated at 300 and configured to run on either single engine or both simultaneously.

Three under floor baggage compartments totaled almost 300 cubic feet and offered enough space for commercial revenue.

A little history on the 4901;

M. E. Moore, president of Continental Trailways, had a yen for a 40 foot bus and was very interested when the GM sales department came calling with the PDX-4901 in 1954.

GM promised different styling on the production model and Moore, still hungry for a niche coach, wrote a deposit check and signed an order.

GM, however, then went to Greyhound, and using the potential of a sale to Continental as an intimidation, asked if they were interested in buying as well.

Greyhound had already tried the car and had given it back with a "no thanks," and the second time their answer was the same. GM gave Moore his deposit check back thinking that if Greyhound wouldn't buy it, then they wouldn't build it for anyone else either.

Greyhound’s experience with the Scenicruiser twin Diesels undoubtedly nixed any hope for the 4901’s future!

Photos courtesy of GM Photographic.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr 'L' -

"PDX 4901" The lost experiment? Thanks! This one truly a rare item. Were I writing the copy, my own choice would be use of something
other than "bloated". (All the more so, as present day, mind dead politicos and demagogues use much too broad the brush in labeling
too much "overweight".)

So, GM its own worst enemy? In pulling bank on Moore's Continental order, this put the Belgian builder into the business? The resulting
Belgie Eagles proved solid performers, and with Detroit Diesel power, too...

Exactly in the era, the problem was with the Detroit Diesel product line. The needs of the coach designers were outpacing the capabilities
of the available Detroit power plants. An event dating to 1963, cargo hauler, Consolidated Freightways (CFWY) needed line haul power
with single, large engines. The requirement met with Euclid, Div GM engines, larger than product from Detroit Diesel...

................Vern..............
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen in the foreground of the image below (with the dent in its roof) is fleet number 32234 – a 1942 Yellow Coach and one of 350 (32201 to 32550) delivered to the United States Navy in two shipments in that year.

Three hundred of these buses were assigned to the Mare Island Naval Shipyard (pictured) outside Vellejo, California during the war for commuting nearly 6000 civilian employees and were operated at the behest of the government by Pacific Greyhound Lines.

These single door 4505’s were among the last Yellows before the conflict to feature Diesel engines and aluminum bodies as such materials were then directed for military applications.

It is interesting to note that fifty of this order were originally built for Surface Transportation System of New York and were already numbered 1061 to 1110 before being diverted to the Navy by the Office of Defense Transportation (ODT).

Mare Island, part of which is now on the Registry of National Landmarks, was one of the Navy’s largest ‘dry dock’ facilities and played a pivotal role in winning the war with its ability to repair and paint as many as eight ships at a time.

For more information on the TD 4505's, see page 27 of this series.

Photos courtesy of NorCal Bus Fans.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for digging up the interesting photos, Mr. Linsky. I've never seen these before anywhere!
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyberider -

Remarkable, aren't they? Mare Island a huge complex during the WWII years... Pacific Greyhound also served...

..................Vern...............
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'LUXURY COACHES FROM BUDD CIRCA 1937'


From an article entitled 'Desert Bus' which appeared in the February 15th, 1937 issue of Time Magazine.


In 1936 the Budd Company of Philadelphia, Pa. received an order from the Nairn Transport Company, Ltd. of Damascus, Syria for two stainless steel bus trailers, built on the principle of the firm’s lightweight streamlined trains.

The first trailer had luxurious accommodations for 19 seated passengers and the second for 14 travelers who would spend their long overnight journey in private upper or lower sleeping berths.

Budd contracted with a Newark, New Jersey fabricator to build the interiors of the luxury buses including the first recorded use of air conditioning in a motor coach, which was developed by the Carrier Corp. of Syracuse, New York.

The two custom-built tractors were powered by 150 hp Cummins Diesel engines and assembled with the combined efforts of the White Motor Co. and the Van Dorn Iron Works both of Cleveland, Ohio. The vehicles had oversized radiators, Timken/Detroit axles and special Firestone tires built to withstands the rigors of desert operation.

Whites 4x2 drive was found to be very effective at maintaining high speed in the hard, flat desert, and the Cummins engines provided 9mpg (a spectacular achievement considering that just ten years previous the firm’s gasoline-powered six-wheel coaches had averaged a paltry 2.5 mpg).

These unusual land yachts were also described in great detail by Edgar M. Jones in the October, 1937 issue of Modern Mechanix:

Shuttling across the sands of the Syrian desert, between Damascus and Bagdad, are two shiny new trailer-buses.

Built by The Budd Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for the Nairn Transport Company of Syria, with the same technique of welded, lightweight, stainless-steel that made the now famous Zephyr trains, the new buses are a close approach to the luxury of a deluxe railroad car.

As with any public carrier, passenger comfort is of prime importance.

Accordingly, the plans incorporated Budd's experience in building streamlined railroad car and auto bodies, with the Nairn need for an economical, speedy, lightweight, rugged bus which could travel the rough terrain with a minimum of difficulty. To guard against the extreme temperatures of desert night and day (zero at times and often as high as 140 degrees), complete insulation and conditioning of air were specified. Leg room to equal Pullmans cut passenger capacity to seventeen in the day bus and fourteen in the sleeper. Extra wide chairs limited double seats to one side of the aisle and singles to the other.

The new buses lop nine hours from former crossing time and make the six-hundred-mile trip over trackless waste in fifteen hours, while passengers comfortably sway on rubber cushions. Coach seats face the front, but the sleeper is divided into compartments with seats facing each other. At bed time, the seat backs swing up to form upper berths supported by tubular frames. The gap between the seats is filled with an extra cushion and the lower is made. Sheets, pillows, blankets and curtains make the berths ready for sleepy travelers. Lighting and adjustable outlets for conditioned air are provided for each berth.

Following a formula akin to the hostess or steward plan on American airlines, an attendant throughout the trip comforts passengers with ice water, tea and coffee as well as box lunches with wrapped sandwiches and fruit.

Each patron is provided with a small container having a patented lock for the protection of tooth brush, cash, jewelry, etc. Lockers for storing blankets, pillows, clothing and miscellaneous equipment are in the front of the trailer, while the rear has a dressing room which also contains wash basins and toilet facilities.

The flooring is surfaced with heavy linoleum which extends up the walls for six inches so that a flushing by hose is possible.


Walls, doors, and partitions are faced with birch plywood. The ceiling is made of perforated aluminum which acts to deaden sound. All windows are of safety glass and are curtained with drapes. A silvery corrugated exterior, looking for all the world like something made from Mother’s washboard, has some properties for deflecting sun rays, but any persistent outside heat or cold is stopped by insulation four inches thick in the roof and two inches thick in the sides.


Powered by a 150 h. p. Diesels, the tractor units, sheathed in aluminum, furnish a cab for the driver and his alternate, air conditioning equipment, and space for baggage. At the rear of the tractor unit are hinged wings to enhance the streamlined effect.

Five 6.6 volt batteries connected in series and located in the tractor unit comprise the 32 volt lighting system for the bus. When the motor isn’t running, interior lighting is used sparingly. Compression for the cooling system is obtained from a seperate gasoline engine. Air intakes are in the roof and exhaust fans on each side push out the warm air. Filled to capacity with passengers, baggage, water, and two hundred gallons of fuel oil, the total weight goes over fifteen tons.

The one and only scheduled stop between points is Rutbah which is the nearest thing in real life to the movie conception of a desert outpost. Grim walls, radio towers, and detachments of soldiers remind travelers of Beau Sabreur and the Foreign Legion. The hotel, a large restaurant, and an ice-making plant do a thriving business at this meeting point for air and motor travelers . Possessing the only wells which do not go dry during the hot spell, Rutbah attracts the Arabs who camp outside the fort with their camels and livestock.


During the rainy months of January and February, water collects in the hollows of the desert. Puddles and mud, hundreds of yards wide and several miles long, spot the trail. As there is no telling the extent of this area, it is impracticable to detour. Drivers with an acquired Oriental fatalism on coming to mud, warn passengers, then drive at full speed to slide across on the belly of the bus. As a concession to this practice, the new trailers (turtle-like) have completely enclosed bottoms. Sandstorms force a complete stop (seldom over an hour or so). The tight fitting doors and windows prevent discomfort.

To the astonished natives and wondering resident Europeans, the new buses are but the most recent surprise that owner Norman Nairn delights in springing upon the slow-moving East. He was the first to have a speed boat to skim the Mediterranean near Beirut; the first to own an airplane. Always wanting speed, Nairn now in his forties, has made a record of spectacular but profitable ventures.

Photos courtesy of Time Magazine

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Budd buses in the previous post were something else for the mid thirties what with the first motor coach Air Conditioning application and Air Suspension Ride (if that was what was meant by 'passengers swaying on rubber cushions').

Below are some additional shots of the sleeper arrangement which was very much akin to the luxury berths on any railroad train.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached below are two photos depicting a 1927 version of the Model 64 Safeway Saloon Coach built by The Six Wheel Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and operating for the Nairn Transport Company of Damascus, Syria.

Featuring comfortable high-back seats and space for two tons of luggage and freight, these 16 passenger fourteen thousand pound coaches were equipped with 110hp 6 cylinder Continental Model 15-H Red Seal gasoline engines combined with 8 speed gearboxes and could reach speeds of nearly 60 mph.

Other special equipment included extra heavy duty Westinghouse patented shock absorbers, advanced Woods 'projector beam' headlights and a center beam that followed the direction of the steering gear.

Notice the addition of the partial covering of the front wheel wells to reduce blowing sand during long desert transits.

Nairn Transport was a premiere Middle East carrier and specialized in ferrying mail, freight, soldiers and oil workers between Beirut, Damascus, Haifa, Baghdad and beyond.

In addition to the popular Model 64, Six Wheel also produced a double decked Model 67 and sold numbers to several American operators including Fifth Avenue Coach of New York.

Interestingly, the company also held the original patent for the interlocking rear door which it had utilized as far back as 1925.

Images borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'MACK'S EMBARRASSING BUSTLE BUS'

Mack was on the right track as far back as 1935 when they introduced what may have been among the first 'low floor' transit buses and designated it as the Model 'CW'.

However, in order to achieve the design they placed the rear axle completely behind the passenger compartment to permit a full low floor unlike today's 'deck and a half' LF's which allow for the engine installation within the body of the bus.

In borrowing a design from Dwight Austin's Austin Utility Coach, Mack placed the engine in a pod or bustle behind the body.

While the configuration was awkward looking and won no awards for aesthetic appeal , mechanics found servicing and replacement of the engine quite easy in that the bustle was removable.

Despite its shortcomings, the bustle bus sold well with decent orders going to Salt Lake City, Indianapolis and Dubuque among others.

Pictured below in a factory pose (top) is fleet number 100 and one of two original 6CW 3S's delivered to Interstate Power Company of Cedar Rapids Iowa in March of 1936.

Convention dictated that Mack redesign the rear of the CW shortly thereafter as can be seen in Connecticut's CR&L 'improved' model (bottom) - note that the rear windows form a hatch which can be opened for ease of servicing.

Upper photo courtesy of the Mack Truck Museum of Allentown, Pa.
Lower photo courtesy of our own Bill D.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr "L" -

Quite the absorbing and fascinating account of this development, and its point in time. What Dwight Austin, Mack, and others may not
have anticipated was the changes at the Interstate Commerce Commission (I C C), resulting from the Motor Carrier Act, 1935. Among
other provisions, it added duties for oversight of highway safety objectives.

In any case, the 1935 Act had a result the I C C issued a ruling that banned use of low floor equipment in interstate commerce. In a way,
Greyhound somehow must have anticipated this. (Better Washington lobbyists?).

In the old (lights now off and shopkeeper can't be located), Strayhound site, W/M Randy had a photo of a Yellow Coach (GM) rear engine,
high floor prototype, in trials during 1935. His photo an on street scene in Detroit. The prototype was apparently the predecessor of the
Yellow Coach 719...

..................Vern...............
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a new one on me!

Pictured in two poses is fleet # V1600 - an early forties tractor trailer rig operating for Santa Fe Trailways and known as the 'Santa Fe Victory Liner'.

This 117 passenger coach is most unusual in the unorthodox way that the tractor is married to the trailer (actually, I'm trying to figure out how the driver isn't sliced in half each time he turns a corner!).

I have no mechanical specs except to say that the trailer, fabricated entirely by Santa Fe personnel in their own shops, was made of plywood.

The bus was not in public service and was built specifically to transport civilian employees to military arms factories during the war.

Most bus companies had at least one or two coaches painted in stars and stripes during the war with various slogans including 'Buy War Bonds'.

At Green Line (NY), our 'War Bond Bus' was # 802 - a 1939 Mack Model CM which continued to operate in its special livery until well after the end of the conflict.

Photos thanks to Trailways Forever Memories (#757).

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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